Japanimation --> Chinamation?

Yahoo Japan News "Chinese Animation" as Seen By the Japanese Anime Industry (Japanese language)

Kazuo Obara, CFO of anime firm Madhouse Studios' Peking office, spoke to Chinanet about the difficulties facing the his industry. "The Japanese anime industry is stagnating. It's facing a harsh reality. Television station revenues are falling, the number of shows airing and the amount of money available for production in serious decline. DVD sales are dropping precipitously, a lethal development for production companies, which depend on DVD sales for some 40% of their revenues. The time has come for the Japanese animation industry to revise its thinking and devise a better business model for a new age."

Obara continued that if properly trained, Chinese animators could well usher in a new era of animation history, but said hurdles remain -- the main one being that of time. "China doesn't have the luxury of taking as long of a time as Japan did to become good at animation. They need to push onto the world stage immediately."

Reactions from the always-reliably-reactive 2ch crowd varied. "The anime industry is already saturated, so it's going to be extremely difficult to break through no matter how much technology you have," remarked one poster. "Given the political stance there, can anyone really create something truly free-thinking or thematically complex?" commented another. Others took a less thoughtful approach: "So the Japanese anime industry is going to sell itself out to the Chinese." And: "This is like an article from a North Korean paper! What is it really saying? 'Japan is out of the game, and China's giving its best?'"

Comments

[Tim Eldred]

Life, uh, finds a way. -Jeff Goldblum, Jurassic Park

[Steve Harrison]

So, as I can't read enough Japanese to even try to decode that article, what exactly is Obara saying? "Japanese studios will give up Japan and oversee Chinese animators producing cartoons for China" or is it "Japanese studios will kick Japanese animators to to curb and use Chinese animators only because it's so much cheaper"?

Both of which, I will no shock anyone by saying, are failure modes, a frantic short-term attempt to maintain the status quo vis. Studio profit margin business models.

(would I be cynical to assume that Obara doesn't live on cup ramen 7 days a week and worry about paying next month's rent?)

China doesn't 'give it up' for anyone. The studios will get the animators up to speed and suddenly the market for Japanese animation (finished shows, catalog and 'one stop' production assist)-in other words they will hasten their own destruction.

(yes, I know. China is a 'sweatshop' already for animation production, I assume Obara's statement is about complete series production from concept to finished show, not just inbetweening)

Bah.

[MattAlt]

It's basically just idle speculation from an industry insider, with a (sort of desperate) spin at the end to bring some relevance to local readers (note that he's speaking to "Chinanet," not the Japanese press.)

What I find most intriguing about these kinds of comments is how so little mention is ever made of the structural problems facing the industry WITHIN JAPAN that could potentially be addressed through re-evaluating domestic practices (the committee system, the stranglehold the television stations have on the money flow, etc., etc.) These "dramatic new business models" always seem vaguely escapist to me.

[WC]

Or maybe it's something they don't seem to have thought of: Maybe they just charge to freaking much for the DVDs.

I saw a really amazing anime online once and wanted to buy the DVDs for it so I could watch it any time. This would be the native version, without English subs at all... For the 50 episode set, I would have had to spend over US$800, and this is after the show has been off the air for years. That is absolutely ridiculous.

Even a normal-priced anime wants US$40+ for 3 episodes. For that same US$40 I could buy an entire season of any show in the US on launch day. If I wait a few months, I can get the whole season for US$20.

But their marketing geniuses won't even stop to consider that maybe they don't know even basic economics.

But even ignoring the economics of the situation, there hasn't been a new super-hit show like Bleach or Fullmetal Alchemist or Berserk for years now. They seem to be aiming at kids and products with things like Bakugan and YuGiOh. The industry as a whole will take a hit when there's nothing actively pulling people back in.

But I'm not worried in the slightest. Failure will force them to bring things back in line with what people want. If they don't, they'll go out of business and someone else will take their place. Capitalism is great like that.

[Brian]

How about America? The Japanese game industry has already accepted that America has become a much more important market than Japan at the current time. Anime is explosively popular here in America, and not only with otaku but with mainstream tweens, too.

There's a huge market for non-censored anime here in the US, and kids nowadays think Japanese culture is really cool, so there'd be no need to tone down the Japanese-ness of anime like we have in the past. Moreover, there are already customers for Japanese anime, and there are a plethora of both animation companies and localization companies that could help Japanese anime producers to bring their work to the states.

[Steve Harrison]

Brian? No. Sorry. That's 2004 thinking there, that's not anywhere the reality now. Read some of the previous discussions on the subject.

[MattAlt]

>>they just charge to freaking much for the DVDs.

I totally agree about the insane prices -- if you think they're bad now, you should have seen it back in the Eighties and Nineties when they were charging $100+ for single video tapes. But you also need to remember that that revenue represents a huge chunk of the money trickling in to the studios, since the production committees take most of the rest of the budgets for themselves. See my piece on the Harvard Report on the topic here:
http://altjapan.typepad.com/my_weblog/2009/06/harvard-anime-report.html

>>Brian? No. Sorry.

Don't you think you're jumping the gun there, Steve? There are plenty of J-E co-productions out there in the pipeline and it is certainly something the industry is focusing on. The market for DVDs is crashing, but the interest in anime is definitely still there -- hence all the bootlegging. That Japanese are considering working with American studios more closely is a fact, not speculation.

[Steve Harrison]

But the AmeriOtaku aren't interested in buying physical media, or so the pundits say. TV isn't interested whatsoever. Free sites do OK, pay sites die quickly or at best seriously underperform based on expectations.

Every move I've heard of, including Funimation's desire to generate original product using Japanese animation studios (shades of Mighty Orbots), is based on incorrect assumptions and, here I go again, old playbooks.

good lord, I'd LOVE for, say, Sunrise to put 100% effort in animating H. Beam Piper's 'Space Viking' as a short miniseries, maybe 13 episodes. But it has been EXPERIENCE that when the Japanese are tasked to produce for an American company they tend to do...lesser work. It's based on...well, never mind, you know where I'm going. I'm thinking specifically of that amazing half-assed job Tatsunoko did with the Robotech followup in the '80s, and then the original nonsense Doozy Bots.

but nobody is going to animate 'Sapce Viking' or 'Ringworld' or 'Hammer's Slammer's', these things would require an act of faith and thinking outside the box. It would require a producer on the American side who would call bulls**t on the Japanese production company when they slacked off, it would require passion and belief and commitment, and that's ALL lacking on both sides of the Pacific, because nobody can think past today, and feel that if they just keep doing what has failed in the past, THIS time for SURE it'll go right and make that big pot of money.

There are solutions. Nobody is interested in solutions, because that means acknowledging what they've done has failed.

But nobody asked me, I'm just a nobody.

[Steve Harrison]

Also, don't forget that a factor in the insane prices for things in Japan is directly linked to the very fossilized distribution system. By simply cutting 2 jobbers out of the chain they could reduce retail prices by something like 50% (without affecting the wholesale price and thus the profit margin of the makers), but THAT is never going to happen. I notice in every article about Japan that discusses this topic that point never seems to be brought up.

[MattAlt]

>>half-assed... Robotech followup
>>Doozy Bots.

I know you love these examples, but failures (no matter how pathetic they may be) from close to two decades ago do not constitute definitive proof that a co-production model absolutely does not and never will work.

[Bruce Lewis]

A properly-done anime version of SPACE VIKING would mean the end of anime for me. I'd never watch another show. I'd just re-watch the SPACE VIKING anime over and over.

"That was another Lukas Trask... He's dead now. I am turning Space Viking."

[Steve Harrison]

Matt, that's a valid point, the only reason I bring up Robotech II and Doozy Bots is because they're fairly accessible to people who might be reading.

Shall I cite Bandai's recent huge failure with Bandai Visual USA? How about I go back to Animevillage.com? Oh, I know, that live action 'made for America' Gundam pilot that they called a movie?

Or I switch it up. Rather than me citing failures, you cite to me successes.

Only ones I can think of are either French or Italian co-productions. And ADV's Lady Death. Which did nothing to save the company and I believe is out of print.

but another thing. Another reason I cite those old, beaten to death titles is because that's from the time the Japanese studios wrote the playbooks they continue to follow slavishly.

[Tracian]

Er...

...and what about going back to producing less series, with good storylines and screenplays, more refined, and targeted towards a broader public instead of a thousand artificial micro-niches of "fans" indoctrinated by incestuous magazines and toy catalogs?

Generally speaking, great stories and art have the habit of becoming cultural icons (and excellent sellers), whereas cookie-cutter jumbled and misdirected self-centered toy ads are always forgotten or disliked.

Think about it. Really.

[RedMaigo]

@Steve Harrison

Space Viking?! Damn! You are truly OG.

I'd love a Lord Kalvan of Otherwhen anime adaption myself but it's not going to happen. However, if someone would make a season or two of Little Fuzzy it would be money in the bank.

I'm pretty sure that most of H. Beam Pipers works are public domain now so...

Speaking of great and criminally forgotten science fiction writers, will someone please do an anime of Norstrilia? I could go on to glory with a smile on my face after the last episode aired.

Besides, Norstrilia has the first and greatest modern day cat girl that ever was.

[Bruce Lewis]

Ginga Bunka Nekomusume C'Mell...

[RedMaigo]

@Bruce Lewis

Hmm, maybe a Norstrilia anime is not a good idea after all. Rod McBan would be another wimp male harem lead, C'Mell would be a loli tsundere catgirl and Lord Jestocast would be the stern and cruel bishounen with a secret heart-of-gold fixing things behind the scenes.

Of course, Norstrilia would take place in a private high school or academy. The Instrumentality would either be the mysterious and sinister student council or some evil corporation/organization that is above the law.

On second thought, I am now stepping away from that idea...slowly.

[MattAlt]

I'd have more faith in seeing a "Space Viking" anime if "Tales of Earthsea" hadn't gone down the way it did... Or the anime version of "Starship Troopers," for that matter.

Yet I continue to believe in the potential of cross-cultural productions. Michael Arias' work on Animatrix and Tekkon Kinkreet comes to mind. Shinji Aramaki's work on the Appleseed: Ex Machina movie (with backing from John Woo) is another example. Perhaps these haven't worked out to the exact satisfaction of many here, but I happen to think satisfaction is overrated. DISsatisfaction can be a great driving force to get out there and do something yourself. And who knows, maybe it'll be one of us here calling the shots someday.

[Bruce Lewis]

And Mother Hitton's Little Kittons would be _actual_ kittens...

[Steve Harrison]

If I read right, one of the upcoming new original animation productions coming from Funimation can be summed up as Teenage Mutant Ninja Werewolves.

Yep, really thinking outside of the box there, guys.

[Bruce Lewis]

American backers only care about making money. They won't sign off on funding for a project unless it's a "sure thing". And by "sure thing" they mean "something that someone else is already making a ton of money with, changed just enough to avoid a lawsuit".

On the other hand, have you ever tried to watch animation created by people who didn't care about making money? Give me the commercial crap any day.

[Steve Harrison]

Well, what bothers me is, the attitude is "churning out crap (but highly cookiecutter commercial crap) makes us money so we can afford to lose money on good stuff" is a pandering, lying business model. They never manage to get around to the 'good stuff', not in any proportion to the piles of crap cranked out. This goes for licensing, not just original production of course.

Companies say that platitude to sooth the fanbase. "We have to push mainstream! Just stick with us!" but the mainstream is a failure as well.

Anime is a niche, boutique market, and always has been. Expecting more than that is delusional.

[Tim Eldred]

So why do you keep wailing about the sorry state of things, as you've done since we first met? Because you want and expect more? Doesn't that make you delusional, too? Lowering your expectations might be the answer you're looking for there.

[Bruce Lewis]

Uh, guys? Can we go back to discussing anime SPACE VIKING? 'Cause that's really what I want to talk about.

[Luis Alis]

Why don't anime production companies sell the same physical disc with the same content simultaneously in many different territories, thus maximizing marketing efforts? At games We've been doing this for years, which is closer to what home video companies do for famous TV shows and movies, and the anime industry has yet to even try it. Rumors say Gundam Unicorn may be slightly closer to this with multilanguage subtitles on the Japanese version.

[Steve Harrison]

Luis, the problem goes to old, outmoded thinking, both in Japan and Hollywood. It's about control, and licensing, and fear of 'reverse importation'.

Yes, Bandai in Japan plans an 'international' release of Gundam Unicorn. Which means one episode per disc at around $80. This will ensure failure in the U.S.

(OK, this is where someone chimes in with 'NO NO NO I read on a blog that someone heard that someone said they plan to sell it for $50! U R Ignorant!" So it's $50. It could be $30. for one episode. Still failure mode)

But Bandai doesn't TRUST the international market. They COULD be putting English subs on every Japanese release, or at least the Blu Ray releases and get some international sales, but they don't, UNLESS there's already been an English release. And even then, well.

My friend is getting the Shin Mazinger Blu Ray box sets. We don't care they don't have English subtitles on them, we're Old Skool. What's annoying is that the bonus content, which is 'BD Live' and thus not a 'physical' thing on the discs but rather 'virtual' content the player grabs via broadband connection, this bonus content is LOCKED OUT if you're not in Japan. Why? would the hundred or so copies sold outside of Japan impose that much of a burden on the Bandai servers?

International thinking my left toe.

[MattAlt]

"outside of Japan impose that much of a burden on the Bandai servers?"

It isn't a burden -- it's a licensing issue.

[Steve Harrison]

Explain how accessing Japanese BD-Live content on a legit Japanese BD disc that just happens to not be in Japan is a licensing issue, please.

This means that if a Japanese ex-pat living and working in L.A. is denied access, he's not getting what he paid for.

When Bandai Visual USA released the crippled DVD of Gunbuster, in addition to removing the bonus disc they altered a bit of music for fear of being sued, yet at the same time they did a re-release of the Japanese set, re-mastered to all region, no subtitles and with the music intact, and told fans if they were upset with the changes made they could buy that (much more expensive) set.

Why didn't licensing issues prevent that?

Why wasn't the music a concern in that release?

I think 'licensing issues' is one of the new ways of saying 'shut up, just because, don't ask', replacing the 'we lost the audio in a fire so you can't license this show' as a default excuse

(yet look, Five Star Stories and Merowlink both came out on DVD in Japan, supposedly impossible! the masters were lost!)

[MattAlt]

"Explain how accessing Japanese BD-Live content on a legit Japanese BD disc that just happens to not be in Japan is a licensing issue, please."

It's pretty simple: they either don't want to, or for some reason contractually can not, allow non-domestic users to access the content. There really and truly are a boatload of issues with licensing content over there, often because the production committee system obfuscates precisely who owns what.

This is not intended to be condescending, but unless you have spent some time trying to negotiate licenses for Japanese content (which Hiroko and I have been over the course of our work this year), it is difficult to understand just how byzantine and often back-asswards things can be when it comes to content usage rights in Japan. Doubly so with regards to older anime produced without any intent of marketing it abroad. It has nothing to do with technology or what's "right" or "ideal" and everything to do with contracts (or the lack thereof, as is often the case in Japan.)

[Steve Harrison]

But I do understand in the gross, if not specific details. And it seems to me what you just said should be the final nail in the coffin of any dismissal of my 'old playbook' comments.

"you have to use these English names because Tanaka-san worked very, very hard on this 20 years ago"

But the BD-live content issue, it makes no sense. Since the discs are coded for BD Region 1 (US, Japan and other guys I can't recall) and not 'narrow coded' for Japan only (which can be done) you would think there's some expectation of not-Japan sales, as minor as they may be. Altho I do expect the Italian otaku went batshit insane to get this.

It's not like the problem of streaming video being country specific. The BD-live content is meant to be the same as extras placed on the physical disc itself (and given only 3 episodes per disc I'd say they had PLENTY of space to put the content on the disc itself), it's not like they were hooking up a live webcast with Go Nagai and Imagawa to chat about the series.

Oh well. It's not as annoying as my friend not being able to get that special Zeus sofubi. Used to be such things were 'pack in' first press gifts but not this time, you had to do something on the Tamashii Web site and pay an extra 2000 Yen to get it. Pity the American Tamashii site isn't set up to do that. Oh, dear, licensing.

[MattAlt]

>>But I do understand in the gross, if not specific details.

I guess what I'm trying to say here is that if you'd ever had to confront them in a business rather than in a purely consumer context, you would have a wee bit more flexibility in how you seem to view anime both as a product and an industry.