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November 23, 2009

Comments

Steve Harrison

Given that there are so MANY loaner words and phrases from Dutch, German, French, Portuguese, Russian, not to mention Chinese, Korean, other Pac Rim nations, and of course English (American and British), I can't help but think this has a more obvious yet obscure root.

You'd never believe how long I sweated over 'Entotsu'(smokestack), trying to understand why that part of the Yamato wasn't just called a 'smokestack'...after all, the rocket Anchor wasn't called some odd Dutch word for anchor....

Let alone the famous 'Landsell' school backpack book bag.

Maybe I'll just ask Zero Loyal Retainer next time I see him... :)

MattAlt

I'm not sure I get you. What is obscure about "entotsu"? It's literally 煙突 -- "smoke" plus "something that projects," which gives you "chimney." I don't think it's a loanword.

Steve Harrison

It's my understanding it has its roots in I think it was Dutch, as Entos. Gaa, so long ago. I got the impression when I was looking things up that the concept of the smokestack, the chimney, was an import. Or maybe that's a memory from a DIFFERENT EARTH!

Johannes Wilhelm

It is really sad to see that human translators' work is so much underrated. In the end and in many cases i guess these "real" translators' fees would be much cheaper than changing all those faulty signs in Japanese (and even more in Chinese!) public.

thomas

I'm afraid that I have to disappoint you, Steve. The common Dutch word for "anchor" is "anker". As for "Entos", I've never heard of the word, and it isn't listed in my "Dikke van Dale" (a big Dutch dicitionary). So either it's very archaic, or you are mixing up languages. You're sure you aren't making the rather common mistake by English speakers of mixing up "Dutch" and "Deutsch" (german for "German")?

Steve Harrison

Thomas, it's very possible. It may also be Portuguese.

Might have been 'Entots.

And it may indeed be archaic. Remember, we're talking like the 1800's or thereabouts.

Naturally it was something I had looked up like back in '82 so WHERE I found it is long, long gone missing. Bah.

Doesn't take away from the idea that 'spare prick' MUST be of the same ilk, the translation software being keyed to something painfully obscure in today's world. hell, maybe even taken from a REALLY OLD translation dictionary.

Don't tell me that doesn't happen. I know it does. :)

Steve Harrison

I wonder if I have a partial answer.

I'm looking at an old conversational dictionary, and 'luggage' is listed as 'tenimotsu' or simply 'Nimotsu.

手荷物


I'll just show my ignorance and say what I see what you have written, and how the message is written above is 'O-nimotsu', yes?

What happens if you plug Tenimotsu into that translator? I'm wondering if the 'rules' it was written under expects the (I assume dis-used) Tenimotsu and so...

Big Ben

I can explain!

Many years ago I used to work as a programmer/linguist on the ATLAS translation engine, which powers BizLingo/excite. When faced with the need to drastically increase the number of words in our dictionary (for marketing reasons) we purchased the Eijiro dictionary data, notoriously uneven in its quality, and added it to our engine without editing or quality control.

I then spent months trying to find and purge all the random sexual slang translations for otherwise innocuous words, but I knew that hundreds would get through no matter how hard I tried. (That job was good for quite a few laughs, as you might imagine.)

In this case, お荷物=luggage or baggage, but also slang for the guy you wish wasn't around, but that you're obliged to bring along. So it actually is kind of equivalent to the British slang "spare prick".

At my current job, the same Eijiro dictionary was responsible for the phrase "nut chokers" appearing in an equity report.

It's hilarious to see this come up all these years later.

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