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    wah

    >>However, male Yappies need to remember that their interest in lolicon is something that they should not share here.

    wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

    Carl

    I really don't know what to say, although it's interesting that twenty years later in GENSHIKEN, it is suggested with both humor and seriousness that people who want to have an honest relationship with an otaku (there are, of course, other levels possible than honest) are going to have to accept full disclosure and due diligence on their 2-D predilections.

    MattAlt

    >>accept full disclosure and due diligence

    An anime version of the Savage Love philosophy of being "good, giving and game"...?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savage_Love#GGG

    In the Yappie Handbook's defense, I think they're trying to convey the idea that chattering about one's predilection for moe hump-pillows isn't exactly the smoothest conversational gambit on a date. Then again, if you've managed to find someone for whom comparing "anime logbooks" qualifies as foreplay, what do you really have to lose?

    Daryl Surat

    Preposterous. Love can't possibly be the most fundamental of human interactions. Rage is.

    If love really were the most fundamental human interaction, then otaku wouldn't truly be human since they'd have all no knowledge or experience of the most fundamental human interaction. They wouldn't need moe, the emotional margarine substitute to love's buttery fat.

    Alas, the Yappie Handbook wasn't the most accurate portrayal of otaku society to come out of 1984. No, that honor goes to "Macross: Do You Remember Love?"

    hillsy

    "chattering about one's predilection for moe hump-pillows isn't exactly the smoothest conversational gambit on a date."

    Well hell....that was the biggest weapon in my mack arsenal. Back to the drawing board.

    Steve Harrison

    I think the one thing that's a 'takeaway' for me in all the Yappie stuff (and yes, Matt, I keep flashing back to TBDX every time I type that :) ) is just how DIFFERENT the world of anime is today to 1984. Oh, sure the framework is the same but there's so much more fragmentation. Heck, back in '84 I don't recall the pervy MOE hugpillow even EXISTING.

    And there's an overall optimism going on there, that there's nothing but a shining future ahead. Oh, Japan, alas!

    Carl

    I seem to recall hearing back then, in the mid-'80s, that even your average (i.e., non-YAPPIE) Japanese high schooler was less likely to have a boyfriend or a girlfriend at that age than their American counterparts. So perhaps the instruction-manual tone was not quite as bizarre in context...?

    Jeremy Neiman

    I love showing my anime logbook in public. It's so exhilarating.

    tissuekins

    "it goes without saying that they enjoy a major advantage in gathering anime information than single Yappies"

    Wait...so yappies should only date to strengthen the power of fandom? I don't know what to say except SIEG ZEON! COME MY YAPPIE BROTHERS! THE GRAVITY OF THE EFSF ARE NO MATCH FOR OUR SPACE FARING BLOOD!

    Tim Eldred

    I'm starting to wonder now about a critical difference between fandoms in Japan and the US during the 80s: control of information. With so much access in Japan, I doubt those fans fell into the traps we did. Since information was harder to come by here, it became conversational currency. US fans who took the fatal step of transforming this into a personal power base became insufferable assholes; a Yappie disqualifier if there ever was one. Is there anything coming up in the guidebook that addresses this phenom?

    MattAlt

    "Information gathering" is a running theme throughout the guidebook -- I mean, it's the main reason you should be dating, right? While they don't explicitly tell readers "don't be an asshat," there is a lot of wink-and-a-nudge type stuff about not bragging about being a Yappie, which amounts to the same thing.

    That being said, there is a section about "Yappie Intelligence Gathering" that begins with "A Yappie needs to know, at the very least, enough to explain the basics of a given anime show. There's nothing sadder than an anime fan who can't express his or her opinion."

    Steve Harrison

    Well, and there's something unspoken that Tim touches on but lightly. In Japan, there's NOTHING AT ALL SPECIAL about watching anime, there's no knowledge to control because it's like watching Star Trek over here in the States.

    Part of the information control was the simple, yet massive truth that we couldn't understand what people were saying, let alone decoding the moonspeak doodles that passed for writing in those books we bought. This is not even a factor in Japan. I mean, duh. :)

    So the bragging rights for the Yappie would be snagging a recording of something on TV that wasn't expected (check your notebook!) such as a festival of Galaxy Express movies and shaboom! there's Matsumoto sitting next to a very 'up' movie host, or the famous Nishizaki promo for Be Forever Yamato on some morning show.

    Tim Eldred

    Now you're talking about competition to be King Collector. We've certainly seen that here, with all its potential for jealousy, resentment, and status-seeking. The universal antidote would be generosity. I'll be interested to see if that's a factor of true Yappiness.

    Yappiness is a warm VCR...

    Carl

    OTAKU NO VIDEO seemed to suggest that the merit of information was not so much in its secrecy, but in the ability to store, recall it, and recognize it, sort of like Sei Shonagon. This was not necessarily considered a virtue for Yappies, I gather however.

    MattAlt

    "there's no knowledge to control"

    Sorry, can't agree with that at all, because Carl nails it on the head. In Japan...

    "the merit of information was... in the ability to store, recall it, and recognize it."

    Exactly! There is a term 生き字引, or "living dictionary" in Japanese, and I suspect many an otaku duel was (and is) fought over the minutiae of a series. Sometimes even more so for it being popular / well known.

    Patrick mentioned this during his talk at Temple University earlier this year, but we were once dissed by the owner of a robot cafe downtown for only having "studied" and not actually "lived" the robot anime we mentioned to him as being favorites. There is absolutely a hierarchy of who's the biggest geek -- I mean, "Yappie" -- over here.

    Steve Harrison

    What Carl was saying is different from what I said, however, at least if you take the entire context of my posts on this.

    While the Yappie (and Otaku) thrive on data and trivia, being able to call out Seiyuu names for characters (something still quite mysterious over here in the US of A, actually.), it's still general, common knowledge because language is not a barrier. Don't know Yamato? Run to the store, pick up Perfect Manual 1 and read about it. Simple and easy. RETENTION of that knowledge may be another thing of course.

    But here? No no no no. Japanese is a dense and complex subject, digging out the Kanji dictionary to puzzle out something as simple and basic (to a native Japanese) as a character's rank was a task few would undertake.

    the concept of 'knowledge' and its hording, sharing and learning-use, application and enhancement are apples and oranges, Japanese and American Yappie style.

    hillsy

    >(something still quite mysterious over here >in the US of A, actually.)

    I dunno...seems like the lion's share of anime con guests these days are American VAs. The kiddies must be paying attention to that.

    Tim Eldred

    Sure they are, NOW. Back before this thing went viral, it was a sign of true obsession if you knew the name of any voice actor. But if you decided it was your right to beat others over the head with that knowledge, everyone knew YOUR name...

    Steve Harrison

    But American VAs are not an issue, because we can read English. Altho it IS a challenge when you see so often the studios don't break out who did which part. And then there's the "I don't want to acknowledge that I'm the person who did that" stuff.

    But Japanese voice actors, a whole other issue. Maybe it's just me, I've NEVER cracked the secret of how,in a kanji dictionary, you get 100% correct success Romanizing a person's name. Nor have I ever found a 'dictionary of names' with specific readings of kanji for names.

    OK, simple, like this. "The third reading in Hepburn is ALWAYS the reading for a person's name" or something. get it now?

    The rules, or the shortcuts, or whatever. So I could have confidence that if I say "Ken Ishikawa wrote this show" I don't instantly get killed by 15 people with "that's Ken Soyukazu, you ass!"

    I have had a hell of a time making people understand my frustration. :)

    MattAlt

    Pinning down name readings can be tricky even for native speakers. Many times there's no way to know a kanji reading for sure, save for asking the person (or someone in the know.)

    The focus on superficial detail like voice actor names is a pretty foreign otaku affectation, I think. The Okada-style, old-school, Japanese Otaku 1.0 way was more focused on _trying to know everything there is to know_ about a given show/genre, and being able to spout it on demand. (Witness the insanely detailed "entrance exam" given to the protagonist in Otaku no Video.) I always thought that the long hours of memorization inherent in the Japanese school system primed otaku for that kind of thing -- they simply shifted their focus to content they liked rather than had to study.

    Steve Harrison

    Aihara Giichi or Aihara Yoshikazu?

    both used in Yamato.

    Ponder. :)

    Lauryn Purtee

    The characters they see on TV may be the first love of anime enthusiasts, but a shared interest in anime is the best area to start a real relationship. I only hope no anime gets in the way of the two - fandom can get crazy!

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